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  • Issues and other rants

    Thought I would start this thread to keep issues that come up we want to gripe about - out of the kids age group threads?

    The latest issue I saw in the U16 girls thread was BQ adding a no tolerance policy for parent behaviour. Wasn't that always the policy? This is typical of BQ's approach of not trying to deal with the issue directly themselves. Watch, as some people have mentioned, that certain people will take advantage of being able to bring a person to the coordinators attention and have them thrown out for virtually nothing.

    Given the recent rugby league incidents in particular it his no surprise to see BQ's reaction to parent behaviour towards officials. But given we are a sport that has a lid on most incidents, this now opens the door for power crazed individuals to make a point.

    Hopefully it does not come to that.

    Other issues: Player costs (club and rep), season dates to not coincide with the VIC clubs, U14's being made to play 12 months of the year in QLD, no communication between BQ & schools competition, rep selection processes etc.

  • #2
    worrying signs

    Originally posted by KoA View Post
    Thought I would start this thread to keep issues that come up we want to gripe about - out of the kids age group threads?

    The latest issue I saw in the U16 girls thread was BQ adding a no tolerance policy for parent behaviour. Wasn't that always the policy? This is typical of BQ's approach of not trying to deal with the issue directly themselves. Watch, as some people have mentioned, that certain people will take advantage of being able to bring a person to the coordinators attention and have them thrown out for virtually nothing.

    Given the recent rugby league incidents in particular it his no surprise to see BQ's reaction to parent behaviour towards officials. But given we are a sport that has a lid on most incidents, this now opens the door for power crazed individuals to make a point.

    Hopefully it does not come to that.

    Other issues: Player costs (club and rep), season dates to not coincide with the VIC clubs, U14's being made to play 12 months of the year in QLD, no communication between BQ & schools competition, rep selection processes etc.
    Totally support zero tolerance. However one of my major concerns is what formal training do these controllers undertake to be entrusted with this responsibility? We have all seen over zealous "officials" on a power trip inflame a situation rather than diffuse it.

    Another issue I noticed was the statement that no warnings need to be given? That to me is scary, surely being able to speak with a person who is treading a fine line is better than just walking up and saying you are gone?

    Lots of things to ponder if BQ decide to go down this path.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Totally support zero tolerance. However one of my major concerns is what formal training do these controllers undertake to be entrusted with this responsibility? We have all seen over zealous "officials" on a power trip inflame a situation rather than diffuse it.

      Another issue I noticed was the statement that no warnings need to be given? That to me is scary, surely being able to speak with a person who is treading a fine line is better than just walking up and saying you are gone?

      Lots of things to ponder if BQ decide to go down this path.
      It bothers me a little to see people saying "We have all seen over zealous officials on a power trip". I have been to countless numbers of games in my 35 years of basketball in Queensland and I can honestly say that I doubt if I could count these "over zealous officials" on one hand but the crazies giving it to junior refs, players and opposing parents that I have seen leaves this number for dead. If this policy bothers you, then I can only think you may have opened your mouth once too often in the past and don't feel you have the capability to control yourself in the future. And this talk of litigation if the policy is enforced is laughable. Please remember - this is junior basketball. I can guarantee that some of the loonies in the stands are way more of a threat to the youth participating than the people asked to enforce the policy.

      Comment


      • #4
        Good thinking King of Arms to open a thread where the issues of the sport's development can be discussed in a broader context than a specific junior age/gender grouping.

        Good to see from 'Worrying Signs' that I'm not alone in my concerns for potential abuse of power in this new 'brainwave' where BQ are enabling a volunteer to be 'judge, jury, executioner' over participants at a community sporting event.

        As 'Worrying Signs' rightly questions, what training, qualification and experience do these people have to enact procedures which, at the very least are questionable under the tenets of natural justice and more specifically, arguably in breach of anti-discrimination, bullying, harassment, vilification and human rights statutes in this country? Are these people required to undergo and be certified Member Protection Officers? Are they trained in crowd control/management and qualified to ascertain what is a legitimate and legally enforceable exclusion from a public event, or simply entrusted with powers outside their capability and skill levels which will inevitably attract litigation from some some person who has been wrongfully exposed to stress and duress, pain and suffering, been discriminated against and suffered a violation of their human rights?
        Sounds extreme, I know, but if you've ever been a sports administrator and seen first hand how a lawsuit is framed and the long list of litigants the action is levelled at, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

        I strongly doubt that the decision maker at BQ of this little beauty has any comprehension of the levels of training, certification and strict application of specific policy and procedure is involved before those security personnel that come and eject serious troublemakers from the MCG are enabled to perform that function.

        As mentioned elsewhere, I have seen a high profile basketball icon ejected on the whim of one of these untrained, unqualified and enormously inexperienced "controllers" on the strength of a one sentence correction of a referees ruling delivered in an even tone at a volume that the ref could hear.

        When someone is guilty of underhanded dealings and knows they are acting unethically to favour a team, sometimes that single line correction can sound like a bomb going off to them, the threat of exposure and someone having caught them out far greater than any potential threat of a physical or harmful nature.

        I think it was said before, it will happen the first time one of these "controllers" steps over the line.
        At least once one of them loses their house in court there will be no more people willing to put themselves at risk of litigation and the stupid "rule" will be abandoned to the scrap heap from whence it originated.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          At least once one of them loses their house in court there will be no more people willing to put themselves at risk of litigation and the stupid "rule" will be abandoned to the scrap heap from whence it originated.
          You are delusional. Here's a thought; stop worrying about the behaviours of volunteer officials and worry more about your own behaviours in junior sport. NO ONE is EVER going to lose their home for ejecting someone from a junior sports event. I can hardly believe you even typed that out.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            You are delusional. Here's a thought; stop worrying about the behaviours of volunteer officials and worry more about your own behaviours in junior sport. NO ONE is EVER going to lose their home for ejecting someone from a junior sports event. I can hardly believe you even typed that out.
            Exactly

            I don't know where these people go to watch their sport with all these overzealous crazies wanting to throw everyone out of the venues at a whim. A no tolerance policy has my support. If you don't want your corrupt officials making bad call to provide and advantage to one particular team play NRL. Oh, maybe not that either..

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              You are delusional. Here's a thought; stop worrying about the behaviours of volunteer officials and worry more about your own behaviours in junior sport. NO ONE is EVER going to lose their home for ejecting someone from a junior sports event. I can hardly believe you even typed that out.
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Exactly
              I don't know where these people go to watch their sport with all these overzealous crazies wanting to throw everyone out of the venues at a whim. A no tolerance policy has my support. If you don't want your corrupt officials making bad call to provide and advantage to one particular team play NRL. Oh, maybe not that either.. .
              There goes the neighbourhood King of Arms...Good idea but to take the level of discussion away from the kids forums by starting a new thread where people with a level of experience working in the sports industry can discuss relevant issues.
              Not really a conversation that self-righteous control freaks with domination issues could be expected to effectively engage in, but to be expected when they get bored of self-selecting State and National teams and defiling reasonable people on the basis of their "extensive" sports industry experience and basketball acumen.
              Pretty good indication of what to expect should (likely!) one of these writers ever get the opportunity to enact their control fantasies as a "controller" isnt it? Great opportunity for them to skite around the watercooler at work how they "pulled such and such a Boomer or NBL legend or even just the parent of an up and coming star kid who is way better than theirs into line". Yep. They showed them whose boss!
              (Which like the other thread these posts perfectly illustrate the level of thinking around the hoops scene these days.)

              Good on you for trying to raise the level of industry discourse on Bendoes. But I've lost interest now. Put a webber on and I'll come over for a yarn!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                It bothers me a little to see people saying "We have all seen over zealous officials on a power trip". I have been to countless numbers of games in my 35 years of basketball in Queensland and I can honestly say that I doubt if I could count these "over zealous officials" on one hand but the crazies giving it to junior refs, players and opposing parents that I have seen leaves this number for dead. If this policy bothers you, then I can only think you may have opened your mouth once too often in the past and don't feel you have the capability to control yourself in the future. And this talk of litigation if the policy is enforced is laughable. Please remember - this is junior basketball. I can guarantee that some of the loonies in the stands are way more of a threat to the youth participating than the people asked to enforce the policy.
                You can count over zealous officials in your 35 years on one hand????...hahahaha. Seriously. And its not about attacking officials and its not about the previous poster opening his mouth...he doesn't. And if you think that officials with zero training in this particular area, are not going to come under scrutiny you are kidding yourself. I don't abuse officials as a parent and neither does the previous poster talking about member protection issues, of which he has vast experience. By the way, the loonies in the stands pay for all this to happen...

                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                You are delusional. Here's a thought; stop worrying about the behaviours of volunteer officials and worry more about your own behaviours in junior sport. NO ONE is EVER going to lose their home for ejecting someone from a junior sports event. I can hardly believe you even typed that out.
                You are happy to accept a no tolerance policy, giving officials with no training in this area, the right to throw anyone out without warning? You are happy with that? OK. That's your opinion. But to turn around and accuse people that they should look at their own behaviour first?? This is EXACTLY the issue. TBC

                Are YOU delusional?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Good on you for trying to raise the level of industry discourse on Bendoes. But I've lost interest now. Put a webber on and I'll come over for a yarn![/QUOTE]

                  Just make sure you have all the relevant waivers and indemnity documents signed and public liability insurance in place before you go.

                  The thing is I don't think you get what we are trying to say. Unfortunately your rant about these power crazed administrators just sounds to me like its coming from someone with an axe to grind. Your fear campaign against the no tolerance policy came straight from Tony Abbotts play book.

                  This is junior basketball for $&@ks sake.

                  Like I said in 35 years in this sport in Queensland as a player and a coach I have see plenty of people ejected and plenty of people who deserverved to be but honestly probably twice ive seen a situation get out of hand because of the handling by the official.

                  Lack of player development and depth building by BQ is a way bigger issue.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would assume that court controllers would have some life skills that would help here.
                    My understanding of the rule is that referees advise the court controller, they then are the ones that take appropriate action they see fit.

                    Also, if every stadium puts up a sign at the entry stating that they have the right to refuse entry to anyone then this would cover then from litigation unless their decision to exclude this people was discriminatory. (Eg: pregnant, gender based, race based, etc)

                    Refusal of entry is not always discrimination.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Good on you for trying to raise the level of industry discourse on Bendoes. But I've lost interest now. Put a webber on and I'll come over for a yarn!
                      Just make sure you have all the relevant waivers and indemnity documents signed and public liability insurance in place before you go. .[/QUOTE]

                      No small time personality disorders spruiking their own importance there mate. Just an incredibly accomplished quiet spoken basketball person who takes a deep interest in his outdoor cooking these days. Never been "ejected" there for stating an opinion.

                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      The thing is I don't think you get what we are trying to say. .
                      Interesting that 'you' have miraculously morphed to 'we".

                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Unfortunately your rant about these power crazed administrators just sounds to me like its coming from someone with an axe to grind. Your fear campaign against the no tolerance policy came straight from Tony Abbotts play book..
                      No "rant" no "axe to grind" definately no Abbott fan. A well informed opinion from someone who has worked at a high level in the sports management industry and might just have a tad more real-time knowledge and experience in event management than a 35 year veteran player and spectator. "Fear campaign...?!?! WTF??!!. Every sport already has a no tolerance policy buster. They also have member protection legislation which protects the rights of people who are unfairly dealt with by people with no training or experience to responsibly manage the power they have been given [/QUOTE]

                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      This is junior basketball for $&@ks sake.
                      Its also community sport and governed by a range of peak bodies and statuatory legislation.

                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Like I said in 35 years in this sport in Queensland as a player and a coach I have see plenty of people ejected and plenty of people who deserverved to be but honestly probably twice ive seen a situation get out of hand because of the handling by the official. .
                      then your lucky. But if you'd worked in the industry and particularly this sport at any level that statistic would be different. Count on one hand or not, if even one person is wrongfully ejected then that is a very real problem and carries the potential for litigation should the person elect to proceed.

                      Which is actually the point that was expressed in the first place...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So with your vast industry experience and incredibly accomplished resume for all to see, I assume you wouldn't mind linking us an article or two about people losing their homes for being asked to leave a junior sports event.

                        And the 'we' comment was on point; not everyone is drinking from your spiked cup.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          they walk amongst us

                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          So with your vast industry experience and incredibly accomplished resume for all to see
                          Really from you, and unregistered poster? This place never ceases to amaze me!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So the new no tolerance rule has a few people divided. Some want rules enforced firmly on unruly parents, coaches etc. and others worried about power tripping officials seeing this as an opportunity to harass individuals without formal training. Let?s see what happens...

                            Just to keep it out of the Junior threads...

                            "Priority for Junior players - How does it all fit?"

                            Is it NPP (The BQ/BA elite Junior Program), School program, Club Program, Club Rep Program, other sport.

                            Currently there is an expectation from each group above to commit, one way or another. Sometimes programs overlap, so when there is a clash which program should take precedence?

                            A player being trained in up to five teams (see programs above) at the same time are programs that are designed to fail unless they are coordinated.

                            What can be done to link these programs?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KoA View Post
                              So the new no tolerance rule has a few people divided. Some want rules enforced firmly on unruly parents, coaches etc. and others worried about power tripping officials seeing this as an opportunity to harass individuals without formal training. Let?s see what happens...

                              Just to keep it out of the Junior threads...

                              "Priority for Junior players - How does it all fit?"

                              Is it NPP (The BQ/BA elite Junior Program), School program, Club Program, Club Rep Program, other sport.

                              Currently there is an expectation from each group above to commit, one way or another. Sometimes programs overlap, so when there is a clash which program should take precedence?

                              A player being trained in up to five teams (see programs above) at the same time are programs that are designed to fail unless they are coordinated.

                              What can be done to link these programs?
                              Here is an idea. BQ stop dictating and start listening to what the clubs parents and players are saying. There is no way that a mid week session can please everyone and during nearly half the year it also clashes with the QBL as far as training times go. Maybe more so for aspiring women as men but still the same it does and will happen.
                              BQ (Leonard King and Graham Burns) need to sit down with all clubs and listen to what the concerns are.
                              Elite training should happen away from the rest and perhaps should be done at a reasonable hour on a Sunday. Yes there will be some who for religious reasons can not do this but I am sure it can be worked around. BQ will say that staff need a day off. Then take Monday or a Friday off. That is the nature of our sport and they elected to join the sport on a professional basis.
                              Hell in the north they work around the problems without being forced to turn up in one place so why can it not happen in the south? That way those nvolved have a choice. Surely with all the different clubs and coaching staff it could happen at least in three areas on three different times within a week.
                              Schools and clubs work together to ensure that the players can attend both. Why does not BQ also then consult to make it easier for everyone. Pretty sure because they feel they do not have to listen as the players and parents will do what they say to ensure they have a chance at the top.
                              Elite programs for juniors also need to be managed when they do not conflict with competitions such as BQJBC and schools. Surely players can be given off season programs to do when it best suits them. Those that really want to be the best will do it or they will fall to the side rather then being pushed by power driven persons looking to take the credit for what the clubs and schools identified and developed first.
                              Sad really that people are forced to do something so they can do the thing they love.

                              Comment

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